Comments on: Learning I’m Loved – a Response to Gil http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/ The Official Site of Paul Young, author of The Shack Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:04:55 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: rosch99 http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-2912 rosch99 Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:32:27 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-2912 Hi Paul,<br>I'm sure you've heard it all by now but I'm experiencing a bit of a contrast. I just had a lengthy discussion with my brother-in-law who is a seminary graduate and a pastor. We talked about the nature of God: his love versus his justice. Of course he expounded greatly on how God must judge and condemn most of us for not doing or believing the right thing. I used to believe that too.<br>Recently I've come to the conclusion that God (Papa!) actually knows what he/she/it is doing, and has the power to fulfill whatever intentions he/she/it has. Whatever conditions exist in the world, including those that cause us to suffer pain and loss, and everything we call good, blessed, evil, and ugly, find their paths back to God. It seems pretty clear to me that God is all there is. If there is another source for something that exists, whether acceptable to us or not, then God is not all that he's cracked up to be! I don't think you want to come out and call yourself a believer in universal reconcilliation but I read The Shack from that perspective and was not disappointed. Maybe one of the reasons why your book has had such an impact is that at some deep level most "believers" know at their core that God is love and that God gets his way. My brother-in-law could not come up with a cogent, rational explanation that would contradict Papa's intent.<br>Thanks again for sharing a great story. The fact that it's selling millions of copies speaks to the fact that it's getting to the heart of the matter. I believe the Christian community is on the verge of a transformation and that the response to your story is evidence of that. Your book may not have done so well 20 years ago. But as Victor Hugo said, "there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come."<br>Thanks for being responsive to the call. You have surely been a blessing to thousands! Hi Paul,
I'm sure you've heard it all by now but I'm experiencing a bit of a contrast. I just had a lengthy discussion with my brother-in-law who is a seminary graduate and a pastor. We talked about the nature of God: his love versus his justice. Of course he expounded greatly on how God must judge and condemn most of us for not doing or believing the right thing. I used to believe that too.
Recently I've come to the conclusion that God (Papa!) actually knows what he/she/it is doing, and has the power to fulfill whatever intentions he/she/it has. Whatever conditions exist in the world, including those that cause us to suffer pain and loss, and everything we call good, blessed, evil, and ugly, find their paths back to God. It seems pretty clear to me that God is all there is. If there is another source for something that exists, whether acceptable to us or not, then God is not all that he's cracked up to be! I don't think you want to come out and call yourself a believer in universal reconcilliation but I read The Shack from that perspective and was not disappointed. Maybe one of the reasons why your book has had such an impact is that at some deep level most “believers” know at their core that God is love and that God gets his way. My brother-in-law could not come up with a cogent, rational explanation that would contradict Papa's intent.
Thanks again for sharing a great story. The fact that it's selling millions of copies speaks to the fact that it's getting to the heart of the matter. I believe the Christian community is on the verge of a transformation and that the response to your story is evidence of that. Your book may not have done so well 20 years ago. But as Victor Hugo said, “there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.”
Thanks for being responsive to the call. You have surely been a blessing to thousands!

]]> By: Gordon Rouston http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-2913 Gordon Rouston Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:08:02 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-2913 The book is awesome, the story right on, I know the author has felt considerable pain and has been searching for real truth and meaning. I have been looking for a deeper relationship, one that is more real than religion offers, one that confirms my belief that God loves us and wants a relationship with us, this book, The Shack did it. The book is awesome, the story right on, I know the author has felt considerable pain and has been searching for real truth and meaning. I have been looking for a deeper relationship, one that is more real than religion offers, one that confirms my belief that God loves us and wants a relationship with us, this book, The Shack did it.

]]> By: Антон Павлович http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-2869 Антон Павлович Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:18:40 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-2869 <strong><a href="http://moscow-hr-work.ru" rel="nofollow"> </a> ......</strong> Бесподобная фраза, мне очень нравится :)... ……

Бесподобная фраза, мне очень нравится :) …

]]> By: Dana http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1799 Dana Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:15:37 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1799 I'm not going to go into my own experinces of "abuse" or the constant ruin of relationships from my self-loathing. After reading comments on here, I can see it's old news (although I wonder after 40 years of self-condemnation and the tole it takes, how much more I can take.) HOWEVER, I have had my life long search for God and probably only felt his "love" for the first time only 4 years ago. It was a bloody miracle! I since married for the first time, a man who passionately does not believe in God, but yet hates him (how can that be?) And I cannot live in faith and have my marriage too. He is synical and mean about it and really, I have allowed my faith to disappear. Bringing to surface all my old angry questions about God. ... What about the whole evolution thing (it makes so much sense!) I am sick on a daily basis seeing the selfish destruction all around me, which I am a cog in this big disgusting wheel. The world IS beautiful and what a shame it is that we came along to give it a long demeaning death. We are all doomed with our stupidity and arrogant human behaviour. Is this a part of God's plan? Are all the things you said in your book to make us feel better about ourselves? Is it really conceivable that because Adam made an independant choice, that we are a bunch of f***ed up A-holes crying out for forgivness? That if all went as "planned" we wouldn't be destroying our planet and each other with all our incredible greed? In your book you say that someday it will all come to light, and it will be as it was intended to be. I guess that's where faith comes in... and boy I tell ya I wish that day would come. Can hardly wait. But then, am I one of the damned and perish in hell? Which by the way, you did not really talk much about in your book. So the killer of Missy is also a damaged child of God... if he doesn't repent by the time he dies, does he go to hell? Your interpretation of God is that he does not judge. If there is no judging, then how does one make it to hell? If the answer is because the hell-bound did not acknowledge Jesus, then what if someone dies in this HUGE populated world who had never even heard of Jesus (let's say like a pigmy living deep in the jungle.) Does he get the joy of roasting in his own despair for eternity? So many things that just don't seem "right" (or am I seeing only with my limited vision?) I do admit my life was much more at peace when I beleived Jesus was a real feller who loved me. In my heart of hearts I think I still believe. I did break down and cry during your book, and talked to him again, pleading for him to return (I know I know, he never left right?) To me if I took everything literally, the Old Testament is a God who was angry for human choices and really sticks it to us in really mean ways. Then he realizes he's not relating well at all to his little human invention so he makes part of himself human so he can feel what we do. When he realizes how hard life on earth really is, he decided to die for us so we can sin and still feel loved. A bit more guilt free for both of us. Us humans can abuse away and repent, and God doesn't have to drown us and burn us n' stuff. So the once wrath of God is now an all-loving God. Hmmmm. Oh, I did enjoy your version of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How wonderful that really would be. And that God isn't male or female, just spirit. That you did not take it literally that he made us in his physical image only that he gave us his spirit. I liked that. Unfortunately that spirit is so hard to find in people. Okay I ranted long enough. Even if this get no response it felt good to get it off my chest. I admire you for finding your way through all the "evil" you've had in your life. I admire your faith and how it brings you peace. I did enjoy your book, it was interesting. Oh how I wish your theory was the truth and I was reading a book of facts. Even you, I'm afraid, cannot be 100% sure. I’m not going to go into my own experinces of “abuse” or the constant ruin of relationships from my self-loathing. After reading comments on here, I can see it’s old news (although I wonder after 40 years of self-condemnation and the tole it takes, how much more I can take.) HOWEVER, I have had my life long search for God and probably only felt his “love” for the first time only 4 years ago. It was a bloody miracle! I since married for the first time, a man who passionately does not believe in God, but yet hates him (how can that be?) And I cannot live in faith and have my marriage too. He is synical and mean about it and really, I have allowed my faith to disappear. Bringing to surface all my old angry questions about God. … What about the whole evolution thing (it makes so much sense!)

I am sick on a daily basis seeing the selfish destruction all around me, which I am a cog in this big disgusting wheel. The world IS beautiful and what a shame it is that we came along to give it a long demeaning death. We are all doomed with our stupidity and arrogant human behaviour. Is this a part of God’s plan? Are all the things you said in your book to make us feel better about ourselves? Is it really conceivable that because Adam made an independant choice, that we are a bunch of f***ed up A-holes crying out for forgivness? That if all went as “planned” we wouldn’t be destroying our planet and each other with all our incredible greed? In your book you say that someday it will all come to light, and it will be as it was intended to be. I guess that’s where faith comes in… and boy I tell ya I wish that day would come. Can hardly wait. But then, am I one of the damned and perish in hell? Which by the way, you did not really talk much about in your book. So the killer of Missy is also a damaged child of God… if he doesn’t repent by the time he dies, does he go to hell? Your interpretation of God is that he does not judge. If there is no judging, then how does one make it to hell? If the answer is because the hell-bound did not acknowledge Jesus, then what if someone dies in this HUGE populated world who had never even heard of Jesus (let’s say like a pigmy living deep in the jungle.) Does he get the joy of roasting in his own despair for eternity? So many things that just don’t seem “right” (or am I seeing only with my limited vision?) I do admit my life was much more at peace when I beleived Jesus was a real feller who loved me. In my heart of hearts I think I still believe. I did break down and cry during your book, and talked to him again, pleading for him to return (I know I know, he never left right?)

To me if I took everything literally, the Old Testament is a God who was angry for human choices and really sticks it to us in really mean ways. Then he realizes he’s not relating well at all to his little human invention so he makes part of himself human so he can feel what we do. When he realizes how hard life on earth really is, he decided to die for us so we can sin and still feel loved. A bit more guilt free for both of us. Us humans can abuse away and repent, and God doesn’t have to drown us and burn us n’ stuff. So the once wrath of God is now an all-loving God. Hmmmm.

Oh, I did enjoy your version of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How wonderful that really would be. And that God isn’t male or female, just spirit. That you did not take it literally that he made us in his physical image only that he gave us his spirit. I liked that. Unfortunately that spirit is so hard to find in people.

Okay I ranted long enough. Even if this get no response it felt good to get it off my chest. I admire you for finding your way through all the “evil” you’ve had in your life. I admire your faith and how it brings you peace. I did enjoy your book, it was interesting. Oh how I wish your theory was the truth and I was reading a book of facts. Even you, I’m afraid, cannot be 100% sure.

]]> By: Jayne http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1798 Jayne Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:02:34 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1798 Thank you x Thank you x

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]]> By: Leona Forste http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1796 Leona Forste Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:47:20 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1796 Paul, I must say, that going to your personal appearance in Shreveport earlier this week has made a big difference in my understanding your own witness, and how the Shack came to be. Your book had sold a few million when I first saw you at a Baxter Kruger Seminar in Big Sandy, Texas. And now is in probably 7 or 8 million copies and in 24 languages all over the world. It really is a God thing. My comment here is a validation of how religion can separate us from understanding our real and spiritual relationship in its reality with the Triune God. I have been with Worldwide for over 40 years and we have been transformed in the same way as you alluded to in your personal talk at The River View theater. Understanding the relationship with a God of love, rather than the Santa Clause God we mostly believed in, who is out to "get us and make us burn if we don't perform good enough!". It has been a long journey going from works based to the faith and grace based relationship, and The shack was icing on the cake. We have all had our time of sorrow and like you, I have had a life time of it and the sheer weight of it made me self destructive. I have an unusual story of redemption that I hope isn't lost before Alzheimers gets me. I have waited for people to die who would be hurt if these things were told in their life times. And any one who knows me would know the people I would write about. I have one parent left, and I won't write it while she lives. It was good to see you and be reminded that God moves in our lives for His good purpose. And you only have to "walk, don't run" because if the act is a work of God, it will not fail" It was good to see you again, but shocking that you membered me! (Both times on the front row). Love in Christ, A grateful reader and seeker. Leona Paul,
I must say, that going to your personal appearance in Shreveport earlier this week has made a big difference in my understanding your own witness, and how the Shack came to be. Your book had sold a few million when I first saw you at a Baxter Kruger Seminar in Big Sandy, Texas. And now is in probably 7 or 8 million copies and in 24 languages all over the world. It really is a God thing.
My comment here is a validation of how religion can separate us from understanding our real and spiritual relationship in its reality with the Triune God.
I have been with Worldwide for over 40 years and we have been transformed in the same way as you alluded to in your personal talk at The River View theater. Understanding the relationship with a God of love, rather than the Santa Clause God we mostly believed in, who is out to “get us and make us burn if we don’t perform good enough!”. It has been a long journey going from works based to the faith and grace based relationship, and The shack was icing on the cake.
We have all had our time of sorrow and like you, I have had a life time of it and the sheer weight of it made me self destructive. I have an unusual story of redemption that I hope isn’t lost before Alzheimers gets me. I have waited for people to die who would be hurt if these things were told in their life times. And any one who knows me would know the people I would write about. I have one parent left, and I won’t write it while she lives.
It was good to see you and be reminded that God moves in our lives for His good purpose. And you only have to “walk, don’t run” because if the act is a work of God, it will not fail” It was good to see you again, but shocking that you membered me! (Both times on the front row).
Love in Christ, A grateful reader and seeker. Leona

]]> By: Randy http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1795 Randy Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:17:28 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1795 Lindsey, I am with you. I think that Paul may have found his balance from far right by accepting the far left (THE SHACK). At least that is my opinion. I have read so many Watchman Nee books and tend to attempt to find balance in every aspect of life. I also agree with you in that His judgment of the non-believer has already been passed. You either know Him or you don't. It is true that some will fool themselves into believeing they know Him at which He will reply "depart from me I never new you". Lindsey,
I am with you. I think that Paul may have found his balance from far right by accepting the far left (THE SHACK). At least that is my opinion. I have read so many Watchman Nee books and tend to attempt to find balance in every aspect of life. I also agree with you in that His judgment of the non-believer has already been passed. You either know Him or you don’t. It is true that some will fool themselves into believeing they know Him at which He will reply “depart from me I never new you”.

]]> By: Mary Ann Coco http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1794 Mary Ann Coco Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:53:32 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1794 I just finished reading the book. I am overwhelmed. As I began to read it, it fell out of my hands and as I grabbed it I heard the Voice in my thoughts say,"Mark this page now but read it as it comes along." So I folded over a corner of the page... it was the part Mack goes through the process of fogiving Missy's murderer. I laughed and cried and "saw" the wounded child of Paul with the eyes of my own wounded child....and I knew how he knows. Yes, the Holy Spirit whispered, he is one of my own plucked from the mess.He too knows how I Breathe Life into the living dead. Now I just went to your blog and read a response you wrote to the man in prison ministry and in it you mention you were sexually abused as a child... which in some circles has been called a "confirmation of the Spirit". It has gone so far beyond that in my journey. I have found my child spots others like her instantly and when I pray from her heart to the heart of their child miracles happen. The other person "sees" our children relating as I do.It takes some time to let go of the craziness this is to the mind. I don't know where this will lead or what it means other than when we are weak He is strong. I do know this book came straight through the heart of your child through the Holy Spirit and that it took almost an entire lifetime. And so if you are ever in St. Louis, Missouri, let me know. I'll fix you and yours the best risotto Milanase that has ever crossed your lips and have the joy of our child's sharing. I am almost there, Paul, not quite but any moment now that unspeakable joy will consume me. I flat out love you and thank you so much for going through all pain that brought you to the Joy that wrote the book. From the heart of my child, I pray for you and for all you love. I just finished reading the book. I am overwhelmed. As I began to read it, it fell out of my hands and as I grabbed it I heard the Voice in my thoughts say,”Mark this page now but read it as it comes along.” So I folded over a corner of the page… it was the part Mack goes through the process of fogiving Missy’s murderer. I laughed and cried and “saw” the wounded child of Paul with the eyes of my own wounded child….and I knew how he knows. Yes, the Holy Spirit whispered, he is one of my own plucked from the mess.He too knows how I Breathe Life into the living dead.
Now I just went to your blog and read a response you wrote to the man in prison ministry and in it you mention you were sexually abused as a child… which in some circles has been called a “confirmation of the Spirit”. It has gone so far beyond that in my journey. I have found my child spots others like her instantly and when I pray from her heart to the heart of their child miracles happen. The other person “sees” our children relating as I do.It takes some time to let go of the craziness this is to the mind. I don’t know where this will lead or what it means other than when we are weak He is strong. I do know this book came straight through the heart of your child through the Holy Spirit and that it took almost an entire lifetime. And so if you are ever in St. Louis, Missouri, let me know. I’ll fix you and yours the best risotto Milanase that has ever crossed your lips and have the joy of our child’s sharing. I am almost there, Paul, not quite but any moment now that unspeakable joy will consume me. I flat out love you and thank you so much for going through all pain that brought you to the Joy that wrote the book. From the heart of my child, I pray for you and for all you love.

]]> By: Lindsey http://windrumors.com/2007/09/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/comment-page-2/#comment-1793 Lindsey Tue, 12 May 2009 20:48:35 +0000 http://www.windrumors.com/36/learning-im-loved-a-response-to-gil/#comment-1793 While the Shack has really helped me understand God's love and for the first time begin to relate to him on a more personal and not such a formal level, I can't help but feel that scriptually it leaves out the side of God that is very much a judge, who states unequivocally that those who do not repent and come to him through Jesus will be judged. It downplays God's holiness and judgment. I think a balanced view of God includes both his love and his justice. The trick is being able to view him as loving while knowing he will demand justice in the end and knowing how he exacted judgments in the Bible (e.g., on the Israelites both as individuals and as a nation, on the new believers in Acts I believe who lied about the amount of money they got from the sale of land, on Israel's enemies, etc.) The book kind of glosses over that/seems to deny it. While many sins carry in themselves their own punishment, others don't at times yet they are still sins and there will be consequences for those who haven't believed in Jesus, repented of their sins and submitted their will/lives to Him (that is, the truly regenerate and not just the regenerate in name only). That being said, I think what the book has helped me sort out is that the judgments of God are for non-believers. As a new creation in Christ I don't have to fear/live under constant condemnation/judgment. That God is not as petty/mean spirited and judgmental as I am towards others and myself. While the Shack has really helped me understand God’s love and for the first time begin to relate to him on a more personal and not such a formal level, I can’t help but feel that scriptually it leaves out the side of God that is very much a judge, who states unequivocally that those who do not repent and come to him through Jesus will be judged. It downplays God’s holiness and judgment. I think a balanced view of God includes both his love and his justice. The trick is being able to view him as loving while knowing he will demand justice in the end and knowing how he exacted judgments in the Bible (e.g., on the Israelites both as individuals and as a nation, on the new believers in Acts I believe who lied about the amount of money they got from the sale of land, on Israel’s enemies, etc.) The book kind of glosses over that/seems to deny it. While many sins carry in themselves their own punishment, others don’t at times yet they are still sins and there will be consequences for those who haven’t believed in Jesus, repented of their sins and submitted their will/lives to Him (that is, the truly regenerate and not just the regenerate in name only).

That being said, I think what the book has helped me sort out is that the judgments of God are for non-believers. As a new creation in Christ I don’t have to fear/live under constant condemnation/judgment. That God is not as petty/mean spirited and judgmental as I am towards others and myself.

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